Talk:New main page - Revision history

Jschrempp: /* Collapsible sections */

2022-04-01T18:03:06Z

Collapsible sections

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	but doesn't explain just what the problem is. One possibility, which I noticed when I started experimenting with custom toggles, is that if the toggle is placed at the end of the collapsible text it controls, then when the expanded text appears above the toggle, someone using a screenreader could have a hard time knowing how far to scroll back up the page to get to the start of the newly-expanded material. With the custom toggle positioned just above the collapsible text, as it is in the current version of the page, I don't see why it would be more problematic for screenreader users than MediaWiki's default toggles. However, there may be some subtlety I'm missing. [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 13:16, 1 April 2022 (EDT)		but doesn't explain just what the problem is. One possibility, which I noticed when I started experimenting with custom toggles, is that if the toggle is placed at the end of the collapsible text it controls, then when the expanded text appears above the toggle, someone using a screenreader could have a hard time knowing how far to scroll back up the page to get to the start of the newly-expanded material. With the custom toggle positioned just above the collapsible text, as it is in the current version of the page, I don't see why it would be more problematic for screenreader users than MediaWiki's default toggles. However, there may be some subtlety I'm missing. [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 13:16, 1 April 2022 (EDT)

			I thought the concern for screen readers is changing the text from "collapse/expand" to something else. I could imagine that people might use all kinds of custom text that is not clear it does the collapse/expand function. I don't think the concern is with the position of the expand/collapse link. [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]])

JSaxe: /* Collapsible sections */ new section

2022-04-01T17:16:53Z

Collapsible sections: new section

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	* [[Fork lift charger]]		* [[Fork lift charger]]
	* [[Google Workspace]]		* [[Google Workspace]]

			== Collapsible sections ==

			I've tried the experiment of making the section with our address, contact info, and hours be collapsible, and initially collapsed. The idea is to have less stuff near the top of the page for readers to scroll past in order to get to other content. If we decide it's a good idea, we might make create other collapsible sections if there are cases where it seems appropriate. However, I suggest that having a section collapsed by default is ''inappropriate'' (a) in cases where we expect links within the section to get high traffic and (b) in cases where the section content includes things that readers might never guess were in there if they only saw the section heading.

			Besides the general question of whether having any collapsible sections on the Main Page is a good idea at all, I have a particular concern I want to record here. The default position for expand/collapse toggles in MediaWiki is at the far right, where it might not be conspicuous to some users. One method we've tried for positioning the toggle more conspicuously uses a custom toggle link, as described at

			: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:Collapsible_elements#With_custom_toggle_link

			A warning in that section says

			: This method is inaccessible and confusing to screenreader users. Avoid using it

			but doesn't explain just what the problem is. One possibility, which I noticed when I started experimenting with custom toggles, is that if the toggle is placed at the end of the collapsible text it controls, then when the expanded text appears above the toggle, someone using a screenreader could have a hard time knowing how far to scroll back up the page to get to the start of the newly-expanded material. With the custom toggle positioned just above the collapsible text, as it is in the current version of the page, I don't see why it would be more problematic for screenreader users than MediaWiki's default toggles. However, there may be some subtlety I'm missing. [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 13:16, 1 April 2022 (EDT)

Jschrempp: /* Things to move off the new page */

2022-03-10T23:57:39Z

Things to move off the new page

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	Reactions, anyone?		Reactions, anyone?
	[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 16:57, 10 March 2022 (EST)		[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 16:57, 10 March 2022 (EST)

			I'm just trying to keep the first page brief. I feel like on a long page with different topics, the stuff at the bottom is rarely found. In general I'd prefer shorter pages with all directly relevant content on a topic there. In that spirit I thought the discussion on collaboration tools was long and worthy of its own page. [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]])

	== Shrimpware wiki reference ==		== Shrimpware wiki reference ==

JSaxe: Proposed restoration of direct links to pages about various member/customer services

2022-03-10T21:57:27Z

Proposed restoration of direct links to pages about various member/customer services

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	: Jim Saxe, see this page: https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/MN_Collaboration_tools [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]]) 10:17, 7 February 2022 (EST)		: Jim Saxe, see this page: https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/MN_Collaboration_tools [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]]) 10:17, 7 February 2022 (EST)

			I see that "Collaboration tools" section I proposed in an earlier draft has been moved to be a subtopic ("MN collaboration tools") of "Organization" and that it now has no subtopics of its own (RFID system, Activity Hero, EZ Facility, ...) listed. I'm inclined to disagree with this decision, and I want to say why instead of just reverting the change.

			Near the top of this talk page, I asked, "Which topics do we want to have linked directly from the Main Page and which are we happy to leave two or more links away?" I submit that if something is a service offered on our member dashboard ''or'' if it's a piece of organizational software (as distinguished from CAD/CAM software) that pretty much every MN member needs to know about, then we should assume it deserves to have its own link on the wiki main page unless there's a compelling argument that it doesn't. (E.g., we don't need links to pages about how to use email or how to use a web browser because we can safely assume people in our target audience already know.)

			I recognize that there may be some question about what to name particular links (e.g., "Tool reservations" vs. "How to reserve tools" vs. "EZ Facility"). I also understand that there's no point in putting a lot of effort into writing or revising documentation for systems that we hope to replace soon. But I think that whatever documentation we do have for our current systems—and whatever we will have for our future system(s)—should be found easily, quickly, and with low chance of false starts by someone who comes to the wiki main page looking for it.

			Reactions, anyone?
			[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 16:57, 10 March 2022 (EST)

	== Shrimpware wiki reference ==		== Shrimpware wiki reference ==

JSaxe: /* Shrimpware wiki reference */

2022-02-12T02:25:44Z

Shrimpware wiki reference

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:25, 11 February 2022
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	I think it's time to remove this page from the wiki [[Shrimpware Wiki]]. Do you agree?		I think it's time to remove this page from the wiki [[Shrimpware Wiki]]. Do you agree?

			I believe there are still a fair number of pages (at least in the non-MN-specific parts of the wiki) that use the words "I", "me", and/or "my" with no identification of the antecedent. Should we do anything about those? (And should we do anything to discourage wiki contributors from creating more such pages in the future?) If I understand correctly, warning readers about such pages was a key reason for creating the Shrimpware Wiki page in the first place.[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 21:25, 11 February 2022 (EST)

	== what do we do with these things? ==		== what do we do with these things? ==

Jschrempp: /* what do we do with these things? */ new section

2022-02-07T22:07:19Z

what do we do with these things?: new section

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	I think it's time to remove this page from the wiki [[Shrimpware Wiki]]. Do you agree?		I think it's time to remove this page from the wiki [[Shrimpware Wiki]]. Do you agree?

			== what do we do with these things? ==

			:: ''Below are some topics, including various current wiki pages with MN-related content, that I haven't fit into the categories above. I don't intend this "Miscellaneous" category as a dumping ground for those topics, but as a reminder for us to decide what to do about them. Some won't deserve to be linked directly from the Main Page at all. Others might deserve very prominent placement.'' --JSaxe
			* Mission
			* Volunteering
			* Donations
			* Building map
			* Tours
			* Room rentals
			* [[MN COVID Response]] ''Not to be confused with COVID Protocols'' --JSaxe
			* [[Maker Store]]
			* [[MN Retail]]
			:: ''Note that Maker Store and MN Retail are not to be confused with each other.'' --JSaxe
			* [[Projects/Members]]
			* [[MN Sample Ads]]
			* [[Maker Nexus History]]
			* [[MN Thanks You]]
			**[[Philip Earl Ettel]]
			* [[MN Clean shop]]
			* [[MN wood shop]]
			* [[MN dirty shop]]
			* [[Makerspace IT/Computers]]
			** [[Winston.makernexus]]
			* [[MN Design Style Guidelines]]
			== The following pages are currently orphaned (or effectively orphaned).==
			* [[MN Wish List]]
			* [[Draft Membership Handbook]]
			* [[Fork lift charger]]
			* [[Google Workspace]]

Jschrempp: /* Shrimpware wiki reference */ new section

2022-02-07T20:44:54Z

Shrimpware wiki reference: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:44, 7 February 2022
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	: Jim Saxe, see this page: https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/MN_Collaboration_tools [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]]) 10:17, 7 February 2022 (EST)		: Jim Saxe, see this page: https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/MN_Collaboration_tools [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]]) 10:17, 7 February 2022 (EST)

			== Shrimpware wiki reference ==

			I think it's time to remove this page from the wiki [[Shrimpware Wiki]]. Do you agree?

Jschrempp: /* Unsorted Topics */

2022-02-07T18:17:37Z

Unsorted Topics

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	* What else should I be asking?		* What else should I be asking?
	[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 21:39, 5 February 2022 (EST)		[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 21:39, 5 February 2022 (EST)

			== Search vs Navigation: establishing context for the reader ==

	By the way, regardless of what we do on the main page about MN-specific content vs. general content, we still need to think about how to help readers know what kind of content they've landed on if they get to some article by using the search box. Also, it has occurred to me that the distinction between MN and non-MN content isn't completely sharp. A page about frundelglomping may be completely unrelated to MN until we happen to acquire a frundelglomper, perhaps even of a specific model discussed on the page. And some general woodworking technique might be completely applicable, or even an example of best practices, for use on some tool at MN. I believe the wiki had pages about Slack and about Boss before MN had a Slack account or a Boss laser cutter. On the other hand, I note that those old pages don't (at least not yet) say anything about ''our'' Boss laser cutter or about use of ''our'' Slack space (e.g., all members should join the #general channel). Both the MN-specific stuff and the non-MN-specific stuff are valuable and should be easy to find. What can we do to keep readers from wondering where to find our frundelglomper when we don't have one (but there's stuff about them in the wiki) or from wondering about the paucity of information on the [[Boss]] page when the information they're looking for is on the [[MN-S Laser Cutters]] page? [comment edited] [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 17:30, 6 February 2022 (EST)		By the way, regardless of what we do on the main page about MN-specific content vs. general content, we still need to think about how to help readers know what kind of content they've landed on if they get to some article by using the search box. Also, it has occurred to me that the distinction between MN and non-MN content isn't completely sharp. A page about frundelglomping may be completely unrelated to MN until we happen to acquire a frundelglomper, perhaps even of a specific model discussed on the page. And some general woodworking technique might be completely applicable, or even an example of best practices, for use on some tool at MN. I believe the wiki had pages about Slack and about Boss before MN had a Slack account or a Boss laser cutter. On the other hand, I note that those old pages don't (at least not yet) say anything about ''our'' Boss laser cutter or about use of ''our'' Slack space (e.g., all members should join the #general channel). Both the MN-specific stuff and the non-MN-specific stuff are valuable and should be easy to find. What can we do to keep readers from wondering where to find our frundelglomper when we don't have one (but there's stuff about them in the wiki) or from wondering about the paucity of information on the [[Boss]] page when the information they're looking for is on the [[MN-S Laser Cutters]] page? [comment edited] [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 17:30, 6 February 2022 (EST)

Jschrempp: /* Unsorted Topics */

2022-02-07T15:21:29Z

Unsorted Topics

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:21, 7 February 2022
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	[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 21:39, 5 February 2022 (EST)		[[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 21:39, 5 February 2022 (EST)

			By the way, regardless of what we do on the main page about MN-specific content vs. general content, we still need to think about how to help readers know what kind of content they've landed on if they get to some article by using the search box. Also, it has occurred to me that the distinction between MN and non-MN content isn't completely sharp. A page about frundelglomping may be completely unrelated to MN until we happen to acquire a frundelglomper, perhaps even of a specific model discussed on the page. And some general woodworking technique might be completely applicable, or even an example of best practices, for use on some tool at MN. I believe the wiki had pages about Slack and about Boss before MN had a Slack account or a Boss laser cutter. On the other hand, I note that those old pages don't (at least not yet) say anything about ''our'' Boss laser cutter or about use of ''our'' Slack space (e.g., all members should join the #general channel). Both the MN-specific stuff and the non-MN-specific stuff are valuable and should be easy to find. What can we do to keep readers from wondering where to find our frundelglomper when we don't have one (but there's stuff about them in the wiki) or from wondering about the paucity of information on the [[Boss]] page when the information they're looking for is on the [[MN-S Laser Cutters]] page? [comment edited] [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 17:30, 6 February 2022 (EST)

			== Top Level Navigation ==
	I could see that the first split for a person coming to this page is: I'm interested in Maker Nexus OR I'm interested in making but not MN. In our new main page I think we should have a clear link at the top that says something like "Information about making, not specific to MN" and shunt the people off to a new page. [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]])		I could see that the first split for a person coming to this page is: I'm interested in Maker Nexus OR I'm interested in making but not MN. In our new main page I think we should have a clear link at the top that says something like "Information about making, not specific to MN" and shunt the people off to a new page. [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]])

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	the three items are clickable links. Clicking on item (2), "makerspaces and making in general", jumps you down the page to the relevant section, which in my draft is very much abridged from the corresponding portion of the current main page. We can decide how long or short to make that section. We also might use the "Main article: ..." pattern that I've used a couple other places, where the link after "Main article:" would take you to a comprehensive page for the topic and the links below would take you either to sections of that page or directly to page linked from that page.		the three items are clickable links. Clicking on item (2), "makerspaces and making in general", jumps you down the page to the relevant section, which in my draft is very much abridged from the corresponding portion of the current main page. We can decide how long or short to make that section. We also might use the "Main article: ..." pattern that I've used a couple other places, where the link after "Main article:" would take you to a comprehensive page for the topic and the links below would take you either to sections of that page or directly to page linked from that page.

	Some questions: Do you think it's insufficiently obvious then the items in "... relating to (1) ..." are active links? Would it be helpful to make them into bullet points? If we offer a "Main article:" link for some topic and list some links for selected subtopics below it, is there a danger that some readers will think that list is complete when it isn't? If so, can we do something (preferably non-clunky) to reduce that risk?		Some questions: Do you think it's insufficiently obvious then the items in "... relating to (1) ..." are active links? Would it be helpful to make them into bullet points? If we offer a "Main article:" link for some topic and list some links for selected subtopics below it, is there a danger that some readers will think that list is complete when it isn't? If so, can we do something (preferably non-clunky) to reduce that risk? [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]])

	By the way, regardless of what we do on the main page about MN-specific content vs. general content, we still need to think about how to help readers know what kind of content they've landed on if they get to some article by using the search box. Also, it has occurred to me that the distinction between MN and non-MN content isn't completely sharp. A page about frundelglomping may be completely unrelated to MN until we happen to acquire a frundelglomper, perhaps even of a specific model discussed on the page. And some general woodworking technique might be completely applicable, or even an example of best practices, for use on some tool at MN. I believe the wiki had pages about Slack and about Boss before MN had a Slack account or a Boss laser cutter. On the other hand, I note that those old pages don't (at least not yet) say anything about ''our'' Boss laser cutter or about use of ''our'' Slack space (e.g., all members should join the #general channel). Both the MN-specific stuff and the non-MN-specific stuff are valuable and should be easy to find. What can we do to keep readers from wondering where to find our frundelglomper when we don't have one (but there's stuff about them in the wiki) or from wondering about the paucity of information on the [[Boss]] page when the information they're looking for is on the [[MN-S Laser Cutters]] page? [comment edited] [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]~~) 17:30, 6 February 2022 (EST~~)

	== Things to move off the new page ==		== Things to move off the new page ==

Jschrempp: /* Things to move off the new page */

2022-02-07T15:17:07Z

Things to move off the new page

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:17, 7 February 2022
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	I think that having good overview of our menagerie of collaboration tools might be the next priority, if anyone wants to take a crack at it. BTW, I picked the name "collaboration tools" because I haven't thought of a better name. One might not think of registering for a class or making a tool reservation for oneself as "collaboration". But what's a better name. "Infrastructure" could seem like a topic only of interest to sysadmins, and "CRM" (or "Customer Relations Management") seems way too jargony. [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 20:43, 6 February 2022 (EST)		I think that having good overview of our menagerie of collaboration tools might be the next priority, if anyone wants to take a crack at it. BTW, I picked the name "collaboration tools" because I haven't thought of a better name. One might not think of registering for a class or making a tool reservation for oneself as "collaboration". But what's a better name. "Infrastructure" could seem like a topic only of interest to sysadmins, and "CRM" (or "Customer Relations Management") seems way too jargony. [[User:JSaxe\|JSaxe]] ([[User talk:JSaxe\|talk]]) 20:43, 6 February 2022 (EST)

			: Jim Saxe, see this page: https://makernexuswiki.com/wiki/MN_Collaboration_tools [[User:Jschrempp\|Jschrempp]] ([[User talk:Jschrempp\|talk]]) 10:17, 7 February 2022 (EST)